What effect does "Unjustified Demands -25%" have exactly? (2024)

logan53 said:

It reduces the diplomacy cost, not the war score cost.

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^this

Taking a non war goal province or returning non war goal core costs 50 DMP, with unjustified demands it's only 37 DMP.

logan53 said:

It reduces the diplomacy cost, not the war score cost.

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Really? So you're going to have to claim something like 7-8 provinces for that modifier to compensate for just one random diplomacy loss event? That's an incredibly bad bonus.

Cattlehunter said:

Really? So you're going to have to claim something like 7-8 provinces for that modifier to compensate for just one random diplomacy loss event? That's an incredibly bad bonus.

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Nah it's really good. Some peace deals can cost 500+ diplo points with diplomacy maxed. Nothing worse than not being able to pay for your conquest.

Pryderi said:

Nah it's really good. Some peace deals can cost 500+ diplo points with diplomacy maxed. Nothing worse than not being able to pay for your conquest.

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What peace deal do you have that costs that much without reaching more than a 100% warscore? Most I've seen was 300, with the conquest of 1/3rd of the creek's territory with a valid casus belli against pagans (so justified).

Incidentally, I don't understand what's going on with the conquest of the native americans. Sometimes I can annex them in one go even at 170%+ warscore cost, and other times I have to break them into 2-3 little nations, to annex those one at a time.

The bigger your enemy the less warscore each province costs. Also returning cores is cheaper.

e.g. vs France provinces might only be 2-3% warscore each. Returning 15 cores to Ming is less than 100% warscore.

vanzlmalc said:

^this

Taking a non war goal province or returning non war goal core costs 50 DMP, with unjustified demands it's only 37 DMP.

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Wow, thats it? I orginally thought it was reducing warscore cost of unjustified demands, which made it sound really awesome. Just reducing dip cost sounds really lame. Especially since diplomacy is usually my most plentiful MP since the only massively useful purpose of it is reducing war exhaustion.

Novacat said:

Wow, thats it? I orginally thought it was reducing warscore cost of unjustified demands, which made it sound really awesome. Just reducing dip cost sounds really lame. Especially since diplomacy is usually my most plentiful MP since the only massively useful purpose of it is reducing war exhaustion.

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It depends on how you play the game. Diplo is the most important MP in most of my games, since I like to expand/conquer. I am not converting the culture of provinces. It´s all the peace deals that cost diplo.

Novacat said:

Wow, thats it? I orginally thought it was reducing warscore cost of unjustified demands, which made it sound really awesome. Just reducing dip cost sounds really lame. Especially since diplomacy is usually my most plentiful MP since the only massively useful purpose of it is reducing war exhaustion.

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1. Vassalize some Chinese country with a lot of unowned cores. (This isn't limited to China, but China is prime territory for vassals with lots of cores.)
2. Fight Ming, Zhou, Xi, Manchu, Korea, Japan, Oriat Horde, or whoever for those cores.
3. Return cores to your vassal for cheap warscore cost and huge relations boost.
4. Diplo-annex your vassal.

Congratulations, you just cored a pile of provinces for 37 DIP (or less!) each.

NapoleonI said:

It depends on how you play the game. Diplo is the most important MP in most of my games, since I like to expand/conquer. I am not converting the culture of provinces. It´s all the peace deals that cost diplo.

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I do a lot of expansion and even then its usually not dip points that limit me, but rather warscore and truces.

Cattlehunter said:

What peace deal do you have that costs that much without reaching more than a 100% warscore? Most I've seen was 300, with the conquest of 1/3rd of the creek's territory with a valid casus belli against pagans (so justified).

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Most Diplomatic Power Used in a Peace Deal: 865 as Russia Hargrave
Most Diplomatic Power Used in Peace Deal (AI): 891, Spain rho

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It definitely looks possible.

It's worth noting that this bonus I believe adds with the discount for having the enemy as your Rival (10 DPM to set) meaning you can get a ton of Provinces for very few DPM each. If you have a Claim on the province then I've got the cost down to just 2 DPM.

Nothing worse than winning a war, getting the Call for Peace and not having enough DPM to enforce demands.